19 min readFeb 17, 2021

Alien Integration: Exclusive Interview with David M. Jacobs, Ph.D.

Written by Lee Nicholson

[In association with The OutPost Forum and JAR Magazine. First published 20th October, 2015]

David M. Jacobs Ph.D. is an Associate Professor of History at Temple University (Retired), specializing in 20th century American history and culture. He was granted his Ph.D. from the University of Wisconsin–Madison in 1973, in the field of intellectual history. He also teaches a regular curriculum university course on UFOs: "UFOs and American Society", a course that has been running for over 25 year.
Dr Jacobs began researching UFOs in the mid-1960s, his first book 'The UFO Controversy in America' (1975), was essentially a revised version of his doctoral dissertation and is widely regarded as essential reading. In 1982 he met the late UFO abduction researcher and pioneer Budd Hopkins and following several years of tutelage carried out his first hypnotic regression in 1986. His second book; 'Secret Life: First hand accounts of UFO abductions' (1992) included testimony from 60 individuals and over 300 abduction events. This was followed by 'The Threat: Revealing the Secret Alien Agenda' in 1998.
In September of this year Dr Jacobs published a new book 'Walking Among Us: The Alien Plan to Control Humanity'. He has kindly agreed to answer a series of questions about his work, the results of which are presented below:

Q - First of all thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. I wonder if you could start by telling us roughly how many people you have worked with over the years, is there a specific type of person who contacts you, or do you see more of a reflection of society in general?

A - Since 1986 I have worked with about 150 people and investigated about 1150 different abduction events. Others have worked with more people but I have worked with some for many years thereby learning more about what they were going through and also observing change over time.
I see a reflection of the society in general, although I do not work with anyone under the age of twenty-one. Of course, the person has to have access to a computer, iPhone, or tablet. They then must find my website, and then they have to find the questionnaire on it, fill it out, and then send it to me. If the person lives within 200 kilometers of me and if I think his or her questionnaire represents abduction events, I then contact them and set in motion a series of discussions with me. I go through the questionnaire with them, adding more information. Then I try to warn them of the consequences of finding out if they are abductees, and I am careful to tell them that we will not able to tell whether the person is an abductee or not until after doing hypnosis sessions with me. I also give them very strong warnings about learning that they are abductees; isolation, unable to tell co-workers for fear of being fired, sometimes unable to tell spouses for a multitude of reasons, and so on. I tell them that they are potentially on the verge of making an enormously important life-changing decision that can never be reversed. I give other warnings as well. I get about 25% of them to decide not to go forward. Those that do go forward with me come from different religions, different countries, different educational backgrounds, different intellectual abilities, different races, and so on. In short, they mirror the society in which we live.

Q - You have always made extensive use of hypnotic regression transcripts in your books, yet you acknowledge that the use of hypnosis is controversial in the eyes of many and certainly has its pitfalls. Could you tell us a little bit about your methods and what safeguards you have in place to prevent leading witnesses, inadvertently influencing testimony and confabulation?

A - Confabulation is the most important problem with uncovering abduction events. No one wants false memories thought to be true. I inadvertently believed that what a person told me was true in the very first session I did with her. When I did the first session over because of a tape recorder problem, she told me a different account of her abduction than she originally said. I knew then that I needed to put into effect a series of controls so that would not happen to me again. Thus, I ask questions that are calculated to trick the person into saying what I want them to say but are not true. I virtually never get people to say yes to those questions, they almost always say no. It is the “no” that I am looking for. This means that they are not "biting" on my false leading questions. I have other techniques to guard against confabulation as well. Also, if a person says something that no else has said, it does not become evidence until other people say the same thing without knowledge of the first person's account.

Q - In some ways Abduction research seems to be on the decline and sadly, Budd Hopkins, John Mack and a few others have passed away, do you continue to liaise with other UFO abduction researchers and compare notes?

A - There are only a few Americans who are agenda free (not New Age, or spiritual, or transcendent, or religious, etc.,) who ask proper questions in the right way. Yvonne Smith is an excellent researcher in Los Angeles as is Jed Turnbull is in New York, and others. But in general, we are alone with our research. It is an awful situation. The problem is that the person who wants to do this work cannot be too young because abductees will not tell a young person about their reproductive procedures, etc., that occur on the UFO or elsewhere. I prefer to have a person at least in his/her 40s. The problem is that older person usually already has a career, family, responsibilities, etc. And when I talk at UFO conferences, most people in the audience are elderly. I see very few young enthusiastic people who are interested in UFOs and abductions and willing to wait until they reach the proper age to start doing hypnosis with abductees. They have lives to live. And, doing this type of research is time-consuming and difficult. I spend between four and five hours with each abductee every time we do a session. They can come to me as many times as they want. I have never charged a fee for any of the over 1000 sessions I have had since 1986. It is what I call a negative cash-flow business. When an abductee comes for a session with me, the money flows out of my bank account. So, for these reasons and a variety of other reasons-- people are less interested in UFOs than in decades past, etc.-- the few abduction researchers around today may be the last ones. I hope this is not true.

Q - A friend and colleague passed on the following for your consideration: "One of the things that strikes me when it comes to the research on abductions is the dichotomy between what some have called the 'negatives' and the 'positives.' What is remarkable, is that the dividing line between the two groups seems to fall along professional backgrounds: people who come from a care-giving background (doctors, nurses, psychiatrists, psychologists) tend to fall in the 'positives' group, while people with a background in e.g., law enforcement, intelligence, or history tend to belong to the 'negatives'. Now, both the 'negatives' and the 'positives' claim that their findings are based on the data they've collected. This could indicate that the dichotomy is actually rooted in different (professional) paradigms, and that this affects not only the interpretation of the data, but also goes deeper and even affects what one would consider relevant data. In other words, there is a danger of a professional, and probably subconscious or implicit, paradigmatic confirmation bias (for everyone involved), and this could be the cause of the divergent positions. Do you have any thoughts on that?"

A - There many problems in doing abduction research but two of the main ones are, approaching the subject with an agenda, usually New Age, transcendent, religious, spiritual, and healing for the Earth and/or humans. The other problem is letting those agendas guide the type of questions one asks in hypnosis. No one naturally knows how to do abduction hypnosis, whether they are a professional hypnotist, a hypnotherapist, a psychologist, psychiatrist, mental health professional, etc. They must be trained and there is a learning curve. The abduction phenomenon has profoundly different problems than standard hypnosis and memory retrieval. These arise as a result of remembering events for the first time--and those events were not supposed to be remembered. Many of the mental health people you mention, are not agenda-free and therefore their questions call for agenda-based answers. As a result it seems as if one abductee is validating another abductee’s accounts. I do not know any intelligence or law enforcement abduction researchers, but my guess is that their answers are only as good as their questions and therefore I am highly dubious about their abilities to properly ask questions regardless of negative answers. The problem is that the people with spiritual, etc., agendas are much greater in number than the few trained agenda-free researchers in America. If I have enough energy left, my next book will be a manual on how to do hypnosis with abductees. This is sorely needed.

Q - Based on your interactions with Abductees and other investigators over the years, do you feel as though the phenomenon has been ongoing at a consistent pace, or do you see more of an ebb and flow in reported abduction activity? Have you noticed any patterns in the time and dates of reported abductions, or any significant lulls in activity and do you continue to receive reports to date?

A - This is an easy question to answer. The abduction phenomenon is inter-generational and the children of an abductee will all be abductees as will their children, and so on. Therefore the abduction phenomenon keeps up with population growth and more people are being abducted than ever before. Abductions begin in childhood and continue into old age. It is difficult to know frequency. People only remember a handful of their experiences or “suspicious” events. They do not know how many times they have been abducted. When someone comes to me and we have forty sessions together, we almost certainly left out hundreds of others. The fewest abduction events I have known is about ten in one year. If a person is forty years old and has ten abductions a year, that means he has been abducted perhaps 300-400 times already. The frequency numbers are always staggering. Most abductees who understand what is happening to them would be extremely pleased with only ten a year. I worked with one woman who was having abduction events about twice a week or even more. We looked at 100 of her experiences over the period of a few years.
Most people do not have this frequency, but the phenomenon is persistent, relatively regular, and for most people, unstoppable. Most abductees do not know about what is happening to them and they can lead relatively normal lives. Finally, we do not have enough time to learn about all the abductions a person might have had. It is difficult enough to keep up with the ones that are happening during the months that the abductee is undergoing hypnosis sessions.
It is impossible to tell how many times an abductee has been abducted. They immediately forget about the experience and perhaps never remember it or they will remember it with competent, agenda-free hypnosis. However, if they do bring it to memory, they might not remember all the other events of which they have no memory of whatsoever. I was fortunate enough to track one woman for nine months during which she had over sixty abduction events. Usually, however, I will do ten or twenty sessions that began when the person was a child, adolescent, young adult, and adult. Those sessions represent the tip of the iceberg. People have come to me with lists of hundreds of odd experiences they have had. That is also only the tip of the iceberg. We may never know how many abductions a person has had over his/her lifetime, but it is far more than people realize.

Q - In your second book, 'Secret Life' you discussed attempts to acquire evidence, instances where abductees would set up video cameras and record themselves at night, etc. What examples of physical evidence have you personally come across over the years?

A - This is one of the first things I tried in the late 1980s and 1990s. I had people put video cameras in their bedrooms. The cameras were attached to VCRs and the tape recorded at the slowest speed so that it could get at least eight hours of information. The abductee, for privacy, was supposed to look at each tape and decide whether he/she was going to send it to me. What I got back over the years was people getting up in the middle of the night and walking out of the room followed by an off-camera abduction. I got people going up to the camera and turning off the VCR, followed by an abduction. People told me that for some reason they knew nothing was going to happen that night and decided not to turn on the equipment, followed by an abduction. People also decided that they would feel more comfortable sleeping in another room, etc.
I also have an interesting one in which there was a bright flash in the bedroom, waking up the abductee who then went back to sleep. Perhaps the most dramatic one was a woman who got out of bed turned off the VCR, and an abduction occurred. Then the tape shows her asleep in bed. The question is how did it suddenly show her in bed? If she were to turn the equipment on it would show her pulling back from the VCR, getting into bed, covering herself, and falling asleep. So, close but “no cigar.” These beings appear to know when something unusual is in the room and in some way either learn what it is and have the abductee turn it off, or they just have the VCR turn it off regardless of what it is. There was a program many years ago of trying to measure the environment in a room with an abductee. They installed sensory equipment in a cleverly designed jewel case. I participated in the program with one abductee among many others around the country. However, I am unaware of the results, if any, that were found.

Q - Could you briefly describe the various types of entities as reported to you by the individuals you have worked with over the years?

A - UFOs contain four different entities depending on what the word "different" means. The main aliens are the insect-like ones whom I call insectalins. They are the order givers and everyone else is an order taker. People sometimes, but not always, describe ones that look reptilian-like, whom I call the reptalins. Then comes grays, both tall and small, and after that there are humanoid hybrids who are all probably created with human DNA and gray alien DNA -- if there is such a thing as alien DNA. There are humanoid early-stage hybrids, who are probably crosses between humans and grays, perhaps 80% gray and 20% human; humanoid middle stage hybrids who look more 50-50%; humanoid late stage hybrids who look 80% human 20% gray, humanoid humans, 95% human and 5% gray, and hubrids, 98% human and 2% gray. The hubrids are the ones whose task it is to live here in human society. It is important understand that I do not know the actual percentages and these are just guesses and are probably wrong. Each group of beings has been bred for specific tasks for the abduction phenomenon.

Q - In your latest book you present the testimony of 14 abductees and focus on their encounters with human looking alien-hybrids or 'Hubrids' as part of what appears to be some kind of social intergration training program, does this represent a shift in focus within the phenomenon, or are more traditional type abduction experiences still occurring in parallel?

A - The integration program is the reason there is an abduction phenomenon. The trajectory of it has been in evidence for decades. Starting with the Antonio Vilas Boas case and the Barney and Betty Hill case, the abductees talked of sperm being taken, pregnancy, and sexual activity.
We now know that this was for a program of hybridization. Budd Hopkins first discovered this in the early 1980s. It has remained true ever since. All of the activities on board the UFO, including all of the tasks of the Grays, the insectalins (as I call them) and others are geared toward producing hybrids and eventually installing them on Earth. I have not found any other activities that would suggest otherwise. With Secret Life (1992), my mindset was that the aliens were interested in us, wanted to know what made us “tick,” and were therefore examining us physically and mentally. But, by the publication of The Threat (1998), the evidence had led me into the hybridization program geared toward living on Earth. The beings on board would say that soon there was going to be a change and soon everyone would be happy, everyone would know his place. My guess is that “everyone” means primarily them. I did not know when this change would take place and the aliens never indicated that. However, starting in 2003, I began to hear reports of hybrids moving in to human society. My newest book, Walking Among Us (2015), is about the processes and bureaucracy involved with sending hybrids here, settling them into apartments, and teaching them about life on Earth.
It is also about the critical role that abductees play in this invasion. The change is upon us.

Q - Much of the apparent social integration training involves abductees answering often very naive questions about various aspects of human life, sometimes leading to almost comical situations. Could you give us an example of this?

A - One of my favorite examples involves a hybrid caretaker who came to an abductee’s home with a ten-year-old male hubrid (a hybrid who will be living here) in tow. They went into the living room and while the abductee and the caretaker sat on the couch, the boy was fascinated by an upholstered chair, first asking what the blanket was for that had been spread over it. The abductee explained that the chair had an orange color that she did not like and so she put a blanket on it. The boy looked underneath and said he liked the color. When he sat on it, he sat up ramrod straight not touching the back. The caretaker told him to sit back. He was reluctant to do that. The abductee suddenly understood that the boy was afraid that if he sat back, there would be nothing to support him and he would fall backwards. She explained to him that the back was rigid underneath the upholstery. He got up and walked around to the back of the chair, felt it and was reassured. He then went back and gingerly pushed himself all the way to the back of the chair. The point here is that there are no upholstered chairs on a UFO. Hybrid children sit on raised blocks that that appear to be part of the floor. When they do sit back, it is usually on a ledge attached to a wall.
I thought to myself that this account was about as unlikely and inconsequential a story as anybody could ever dream up unless that person was an abductee, and then it made sense.

Q - Given the sensitivities and potential implications of your work, have you ever been approached by an official (or unofficial) representative of any nation's Government?

A - When Jimmy Carter was campaigning for the Presidency, he promised to reopen the government’s UFO study office. After he was elected I got a call from a member of his administration saying that they were going to try to reopen the program and he had read my first book, The UFO Controversy in America and he had liked it. He wanted to know if I would be available to them when the program was started again. I agreed.
The study of UFOs was not reopened because NASA refused to have anything to do with it. There was an excellent article written about the process that killed the reopening. It is by Dr. Richard Henry in an early Journal of Scientific Exploration. That is the only time I was ever openly contacted by a member of an American administration.

Q - How widespread do you believe the abduction phenomenon and consequently the social integration program to be?

A - People are abductees because one or both of their parents are abductees. When the children get married to non-abductees, all of their children will be abductees, and so on through the generations. Therefore the aliens have a workforce that spreads throughout the society and matches the rate of population growth--and could perhaps outgrow it. Furthermore, the abduction phenomenon is global. I have had reports from people all over the world and I have worked with people from India, Mali, Brazil, Europe, the UK, Australia, and so forth. As a global program it has an enormous number of workers and an even more enormous number of humans have been abducted. The global nature is ominous. Abductions are not a matter of examining humans and learning about their physiology; they could do that with a few humans from a single area. Obviously, from the beginning, the aliens had a very different agenda in their minds. They have a superior technology, of course, and they also have a superior biology. How that biology came to exist is unknown. Within those biological bodies they have a vastly superior neurological capacity than humans. That is the problem. With their neurological abilities they can control humans in virtually every way. They can make people think and do anything they want. And this is global. In 1991 a poll taken by the Roper Poll of almost 6,000 Americans suggested that at least two million might be abductees. Regardless of the poll, my colleagues and I have received many thousands of emails and letters from possible abductees who need to know what has been happening to them. And perhaps 95% of abductees do not know that they are abductees, although they are aware that they have had strange experiences.

Q - If the testimony provided to you is accurate then this would obviously represent a serious concern for the future of humanity, do you have any indications of how things may play out and in what time scale?

A - I do not know how things are going to play out. Abductees do not know. Hybrids living here either do not know or they refuse to talk about it. The only ones who know are the ones in charge, the insect-aliens, or insectalins, as I call them. They have a brilliantly thought out program of integration and they have put it into effect. All the rest of the workers down to the hybrids moving into apartments on Earth, do not know. What they know is that their task is to live here. The “whys” and “whens” are not forthcoming. In my opinion, this is the greatest existential threat to humanity that has ever occurred. This could mean the end of humanity as we know it. It is not a long-lived form of evolution, it is an imposed change on humanity for the benefit of aliens. The milk of human kindness does not run by the quart in every alien’s veins, to paraphrase a line from My Fair Lady.

Q - In the book you suggest the possibility that the 'Hubrids' could find themselves allied with, or at least sympathetic towards humanity, it isn't difficult to imagine the impact that free will and creative expression might have on an individual who had not experienced such things before. Have you seen any evidence of interest in arts and music among 'Hubrids'?

A - I have seen their interest in doing things such as buying clothes, driving cars, etc. But, I have not seen any interest in art, music, or literature. These beings were raised in a sterile environment where there was very little even slightly like entertainment and culture. Humour, for instance is unknown, although sometimes hybrids will laugh at something but telling a joke, or making a facetious remark is beyond their abilities to understand. However, they are very fast learners and it is possible that they can learn to joke and laugh like humans.

Q - Do you recall any personal experiences which you feel may be related to abduction activity? Given the nature of your books, have you received any direct or indirect communications from the ETs?

A - I still have two books to write. One is how to do hypnosis with abductees. It will a manual to do things that, in my estimation, will avoid confabulation, false memories, and so forth. The second book will be about how hybrids tried to get an abductee to stop talking to me and could not do it. After a period of time, they decided to try to find me and stop me from questioning her. This was an extremely frightening experience for me and my family.
After I finish that book, I will begin my life’s ambition to watch television twenty-four seven.

Q - Obviously your new book is controversial, even within ufology, how would you respond to your critics and do you have any recommendations for other researchers in the field?

A - My book has not been out long enough to build up a critical counter-attack on it. I am careful to say when I am speculating and when I am not. The book is filled with transcripts from people who remember the same types of events happening to them. Some people have gotten bogged down in the transcripts, others say they are the most fascinating transcripts they have ever read. However, I am my own best critic. I have no fear of saying I was wrong about anything. I do not dig in my heels when serious criticisms are brought to bear on my work. I am thankful for those criticisms and ashamed that I did not realize the problems before publication. There are, however, people who will criticize anything published in the UFO and abduction field. The debunking community is alive and well. I take no stock in them whatsoever, and neither does any other serious UFO researcher that I know of. I wrote an article about debunkers in 1980 that talked about the serious debunkers of the era, Donald Menzel, Martin Gardner, Phil Klass, James Oberg, etc. They were relentless and very dispiriting. However, today’s debunkers are worse than ever, using ad hominem attacks on UFO and abduction researchers and having the internet to make their words easily accessible to anyone.
The world of debunking has changed, in my opinion, for the worse, if that makes any sense.

Q - Again, many thanks for answering our questions, is there anything you would like to say in closing?

A - The phenomenon is global, it is inter-generational, it has been around for perhaps as long a 100 years or more. Amazingly, people around the world say the same things in the same detail regardless of their upbringing or their religion, race, educational, level, country they come from, and so forth. There has never been anything like this is human history. And, the aliens have expended a tremendous amount of time and energy into this program. We are confronted with an extraordinary goal-directed phenomenon. I have learned to fear what is happening to us.


Dr David Jacobs' new book, 'Walking Among Us: The Alien Plan to Control Humanity' is available from most good book shops, or from various online retailers such as Amazon:


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